and Jay Bayles .
MATT: Played by a woman actress?
JAY: Yeah, played by Tilda Swanton...and so..she's...she's
kinda...I mean he...Orlando, he...the whole beginning
of the movie...is not really feminine but...it's a woman!
So...and he's courting other women and everything...and...uh,
I don't know, you never see him do anything -- well I
don't think he ever really gets to that point with any
of these...dates or whatever. It's olden time, it's like
renaissance...or french...they got all the powdered wigs
and all the..you know...the lacey shit and stuff, and
MATT: So..but...it's not like a twist at the end? Where
she's revealed to be a woman?
JAY: Well yeah, it is...at one certain point she looks
in the mirror and there she is naked, she goes..'I'm a
woman' so everybody around her starts goin'...'uh...'
CARYN: What? Is this Shakespeare?
MATT: It's Virginia Woolf, isn't it?
JAY: Yeah, Virginia Woolf...Virginia Woolf...uh, like
there's this...everybodys' goin' like...all the guys of
course are goin' [acting voice] 'Well it doesn't matter
to me that you're a woman now!' [laughter]
MATT: His friends?
MATT: Her--Orlando's friends...
JAY: This older guy that was kind of a....kind of a mentor,
not a mentor...but it was funny because he's goin'...uh...uh...'marry
me' and she goes 'but i don't..i don't love you'...he
goes 'that doesn't matter'...she goes 'well why should
I marry you'..he goes ''cause I adore you!' and it was
like...she just walks away! She just goes 'so what!' [laughter]
MATT: Hmm. So is she a woman who doesn't know she's a
CARYN: At first?
JAY: At first?
MATT: At first? Or is it a fantasy or--
JAY: It's some kinda weird like--
JAY: It...yeah. It makes sense...it make--it works!
MATT: Is it a fable? Like...
JAY: Well yeah, because she's, she, and then, she's goin'
through, uh, time periods too, I mean at the end of the
movie she's like in modern times, it's still the same
character living out the same existence.
CARYN: Sounds like a weird movie. Crazy!
MATT: I think I heard that it was a strange movie.
JAY: It's strange. Sally Potter did it, and she did the
MATT: Has she done anything else 'of note'?
JAY: Oh god...yeah...uh, she's got a new one that...the
tango thing, where she's learnin' tango lessons from this
CARYN: Oh, it's 'whats-her-name can dance'...
JAY: Or somethin', I'm not sure...
CARYN: Or 'swing'?
MATT: That sounds familiar...
CARYN: The 'what's-her-name gets her groove back'?
JAY and MATT: No, no...
CARYN: No? Sorry. Stella! Gets her groove back...
CARYN: Is that her? Hey, it is about learnin' to dance
from a young buck!
JAY: She's from Australia or somethin'...England? Australia?
One or the other...
MATT: Have you seen American Psycho?
J: No, I'm afraid to...
M: It's fantastic.
J: Do they do the uh...does he...I read it in the library,
M: Did you read the whole book?
J: No, it passed the flip test, believe me.
M: Yeah, I read some of those parts too.
J: Oh god...with the battery terminals on her nipples
M: No. It's..it's...
J: They don't do that in the movie?
M: It's much toned down
J: Oh God, that was scary in the book.
C: I still don't wanna hear it.
J: It was disgusting.
M: I read some extremely disgusting things too.
J: Oh God.
M: You've gotta see the movie, it's a great movie...it
really is, it's very funny, it's a total comedy...
J: Really? Oh god...
M: Some of it's creepy...
C: Black comedy.
M: It's very funny black comedy. And it's played as...total
comedy. Like, some of it is just plain...it's almost like
Kids in the Hall or something. And it's not very gory.
J: You're kiddin'...
M: Yeah, the gore happens offscreen, er, you know, like
it shows a head in his fridge, like a woman's head in
his fridge or something, while he opens it up and grabs
a Coke, and then closes it again, but that's it, you know.
That's as gory as it gets, really.
J: Is that like the hooker or somethin', that he killed?
M: Yeah. But it's not...it doesn't...there's no sadism
in it. Like, any time anything sadistic happens, it's...you
M: Well, it's offscreen and also you are...you don't...you
know, it doesn't like uh...implicate you in the sadism.
You're removed from it, you know that he's the one doing
it, like the book, it's too easy to identify with, you
J: Oh god...it's like you're right there...
M: Well that's 'cause the writer seems to enjoy creating
those sadistic scenes...
M: Just 'cause...to see what he can write about...you
know, what he can create.
J: They're vile...it's like reading Marquis de Sade. It's
as disturbing as that.
M: Yeah. But like did you read the stuff in the book where
he's listing off his...each of his... like he'll describe
what he's wearing.. like he'll say "today I went
and had lunch with so and so. I was wearing a..."
and he'll spend the next page-and-a-half listing what
he's wearing! Like suddenly, it's not about going to eat
lunch anymore, he's just listing every brand name that
he's wearing. That's more what the movie's like. He narrates
it....[laughing] There's at least three different scenes
where he gives little speeches to people who he's invited
over, like before he kills them? He gives little speeches
about music, like he's talkin' about Genesis, and he's
like 'Their early stuff was too arty...too intellectual.
However, with the album Duke, Phil Collins started
to take a more central role in the songwriting of the
band..." and then he pulls out No Jacket Required,
and he shows...there's like a closeup on him holding the
CD of No Jacket Required. And he's like "This...is
'Sussudio'." He talks about how great Huey Lewis
and the News is for a good long three or four minute speech.
It's hilarious! I highly--I think you would like it a
J: Who directed it?
M: Mary Harron. She directed I Shot Andy Warhol.
J: Oh, that was a good movie.
M: See that's another thing, it's directed by a woman,
and a smart woman, you know...there's no identification
with the killer at all. Y'know, like if Quentin Tarantino
directed it, he'd be totally identifying with the killer
and having fun...
J: I know, somethin' like that.
M: Y'know, like 'how sadistic can I make it?' You know.
J: I Shot Andy Warhol was good. I like that...Lili
Taylor a lot.
M: It is a good movie. The guy who played Andy Warhol
was fantastic too. I thought.
J: He was.
M: Not that I know, but it struck me as what Andy Warhol
might've actually been like.
J: And it's funny, Basquiat was at that same time...
M: Yeah, see like David Bowie as Andy Warhol was just
a joke...at best. I mean, the only good thing about was
just seein' that it was David Bowie! You didn't for a
minute think that it was supposed to be Andy Warhol.
J: Bowie was kind of a waste in that Busted movie
too...but it was okay...
I don't know what that is.
J: That's that movie I was tellin' ya from England with
the, the rap feel to it...a lot like Ghost Dog...had
the same feel as Ghost Dog...well, not the same
feel, but just...you know. Leonardo DiCaprio was supposed
to do American Psycho but they thought it would
wreck his image. Tom [Jay's son] told me to go see The
M: Oh really? I'm kinda curious to see it. It looks interesting,
it's just that the reviews made it...kept me away from
it I guess.
J: Bad reviews?
M: Yeah, they were all...I didn't read a single good review
J: Is that bad though? I mean, 'cause Beloved didn't
get any good reviews either...
M: Yeah, I don't remember. The Chicago Reader gave
Beloved a rave review, and that's why I decided
to see it. I'll admit, I tend to use reviews to pick what
movies I see.
J: Well, same here.
M: The Chicago Reader's my bible for film criticism.
I read it on the internet. They called Beloved
a 'terrifyingly beautiful' movie, and I was like 'okay,
I'll go see it,' and it was. I think that's pretty accurate.
C: Didn't you go see that alone?
M: No, you rented it. When I said 'go see it' that was
kind of erroneous. You rented it and I was like 'hey,
I'm glad you rented that.' We watched it separately. Yeah,
DiCaprio's kind of wrecked his image anyway, he probably
J: American Psycho.
C: What did he wreck his image on?
M: Well, he just...The Beach didn't do well.
J: Yeah, but he's still the golden boy. He hasn't played
a malicious person.
M: Yeah. Well the guy -- I'm glad he didn't do it 'cause
the guy in American Psycho is fantastic.
J: Christian Bale?
M: Yeah. He's British, but you can't tell at all. He was
in Velvet Goldmine, did you see that?
J: Yeah. Oh, he was the young...
M: The reporter.
J: The reporter.
M: Wha'd'ya think of that movie?
J: It was okay.
M: It's just okay though, was kinda my...
J: It was just okay, yeah, beause it was like too romantic
or somethin' you know...
M: Well I liked the first hour where...didn't it start
with Oscar Wilde as a baby or something? I kinda liked
J: Yeah, and then something in the pendant?
M: Yeah, that this pendant follows...whoever holds the
pendant is gonna be a glam superstar. And Oscar Wilde
was the first glam superstar. You know, the first campy,
C: Did it ever go to Liberace?
J: He's got the candelabra!
M: Well, it went to Bowie. I liked that movie--the first
hour, but it kinda bogged down. I sorta just got lost
and bored in the second--it lost a lot of its momentum...
J: Yeah, watching the two lovers quarrel and everything,
was like 'okay...'
C: I don't remember that movie at all.
M: I've forgotten most of it.
C: All I can remember is stage scenes, with like the glam.
That's kinda what happened to that Grace of My Heart.
I mean it was okay until...
M: Is that the one with John Turturro?
J: Yeah, he's her agent. Or he's her songwriting...
M: That looked like a fun moive.
J: It was!
It's kind of a biography of Carole King I think. Or something
like that. Singer/songwriter. Or songwriter that is a
frustrated singer...but she writes all these songs for
black girl groups, like "Up On The Roof" I suppose.
What was fun about it was realizing that Elvis and Burt
Bacharach were writing all these songs together to fit
that mood and that time, and these were all new songs,
fresh...and not bad songs.
M: Elvis Presley?
J: Elvis Costello. And Burt Bacharach did the soundtrack.
They did all the writing.
M: So they wrote songs -- pastiches that seemed like they
were Fifties songs? Like genre exercises?
J: Yeah, like "Up On The Roof." She goes to
New York in '57 maybe, or I'm not sure. You know, '51?
I'm not even sure...
J: Yeah, and she's writing songs for what would be like,
you know, Martha and the Vandellas kind of stuff.
M: Or the Ronettes?
J: Not that slick, though. 'Cause isn't that like L.A.?
Isn't Phil Spector L.A.?
M: Yeah, but I wouldn't call Phil Spector slick.
J: Oh, you wouldn't?
M: He's almost noisy. You know, 'The Wall of Sound' and
J: But that's a pretty slick production. You don't think
the Ronettes are slick?
M: Not really, to me they sound...epic. I don't know,
I love Phil Spector. I mean he would overdub like five
bass guitar tracks...how could that end up slick? Five
bass guitars playin' the same thing...
J: Just to get a big sound.
M: Yeah, that wall of sound.
J: But Grace of my Heart, Illeana Douglas, she
goes on...and the beginning is cool, you know, when she's
struggling, she's tryin' to be a singer, she's tryin'
to get a recording of her own, she's got this one 9-minute
song that nobody'll record and everything because it's
like too long. 'You can't do that! That's never been done!"
M: It's before the Doors and Led Zeppelin.
J: But all that's pretty cool, and then she gets a chance
to record and she meets this guy, Matt...Matt...Matt....Dillon.
M: Matt Dillon's in it?
J: He plays this....kind of in '61 or '62, she meets,
or '65 or whatever, she meets Matt Dillon...she gets to
record her song, gets a big record, and uh, finally gets
her record out, and she meets Matt Dillon and Matt Dillon
is like this singer in this Strawberry Alarm Clock kinda
band, and he's a hippie, and he's 'experiencing his existence'!
And he locks himself in the...I can't remember if it's
the attic or the basement. I can't remember. And he ends
up, you know, throwin' himself in the ocean or whatever...and
all that is kinda like the Velvet Goldmine. What
I'm gettin' at with the whole thing is that all that is
kinda like watchin' the lovers quarrel in Velvet Goldmine...bogs
down somewhat...it was still good though.
M: I think I'm gonna rent it.
J: Grace of my Heart was fun for me 'cause that's
like when I was growin' up. It's almost like a behind
the scenes look at the shit I listened to. All through
the hippie, Beach Boys....
M: Did you see the one with Tom Hanks, The Thing You
Do, or That Thing...
J: No, I didn't.
M: I saw some of that in Harris Labs and it was kinda
J: I liked Punchline a lot.
M: Never seen that.
J: Rent that one, man. You gotta see it. That's Sally
Fields and Tom Hanks...that's good. It thought it was
good. She does this funny skit about like Adam & Eve
and stuff...I mean, it's a one-liner, but it was really
funny like..when they were there, Adam's goin' 'Wo! Back
up Eve! I don't know how big this thing's gonna get!'
[laughter] You know and here's Sally Fields...
M: Was that the first time? The first time there was ever
J: 'Back up! I don't know how big this thing's gonna get!'
C: That's cute.
J: But she's like this little mousy housewife and when
she's sayin' it it's a riot. But Tom Hanks is pretty manic
in the movie.
M: That used to be his style.
J: He was good in the movie. I mean, he became, like,
M: Like psychotic?
J: Well yeah, but that was...
M: That was the plot.
J: That was his character or whatever, yeah. It all culminated
in this like talent show at a comedy club and his -- he
was the tenth of ten comedians that were tryin' to win
a spot on the Johnny Carson show...and his monologue was
like...it was fuckin' manic. It was great. It really was.
And he kept on talkin' about like, what people were good
at. Or, you know, I can't remember how he put it. Ummm...professional
welders, professional this, good this, good that...rantin'
and ravin' and rantin' and ravin', and finally at the
end of his skit he said 'I'm a professional hater.' Or
whatever he was callin' it, he was like...he loved to
hate. And it all worked. It was really pretty good, really.
M: Yeah...maybe I will rent that.
J: I don't know why, I'd always wanted to see that, and
I finally just rented it.
M: I guess I never have wanted to see it but...
J: It was okay.
M: For a buck or whatever...
J: Right, for a buck, that's what I did.
C: What was it called? That Thing You Do?
M: But also That Thing You Do. That's where Tom
Hanks...he directed it, and he also plays the manager
of a 60s pop group that hits it big. And they're like
on the Ed Sullivan show and all that.
J: What's the movie that has the four different screens?
M: Time Code.
J: Is that Mike Figgis?
M: Yep. I think it's called Time Code 2000.
J: I wanna see that. Time Code.
M: I do too.
C: "Movie Talk, with Matt and Jay."
M: "And Caryn." You seem like you're tired.
You've been yawning and stuff.
M: Maybe you'll be able to sleep, unlike you thought.
C: Have you ever noticed the fur on Fozzy's ears?
C: Little tips of fur, like a bobcat. Have you noticed
it? It's really cute. Look for it.
M: [fake commercial voice] Look for it!
J: Sally Potter did somethin' else too but I can't think
what it was.
M: [getting The Film Encyclopedia, 3rd Edition by
Ephraim Katz from bookshelf] I'll look it up.
J: Tilda Swinton, the woman who played Orlando, who's
fascinating...played in this movie which I taped just
because she's in it. And she's like this like exec, a
corporate executive, and it's, I mean I think it's an
adult movie, but it's like, you know, it's really pretty...for
some reason it was like...just kind of about power trips.
I can't remember what it was called. It was pretty useless.
She was in it, which was pretty easy to watch.
M: Sally Potter's not in here.
J: She's not, as a director? Gosh...and she did the music
too, it was kinda like Henry Purcell, you know, the baroque
shit? And she did it along with some guy...I wanna say
like...some English jazz guy or somethin'. Do you like
that Steve Reich stuff at all? City Life...the
new one called City Life...
M: I don't know that one, but I just borrowed an album
from KZUM called Six Marimbas...I think. And that's
awesome. And Chris Moon had a really early one called
"Phase Patterns" and "Four Organs."
J: Yeah, it is good stuff. That repetetive shit?
M: Yeah, that stuff's repetetive. And also have you ever
heard "A Rain Is Gonna Fall"? It's like these
tape pieces he did, where he took a guy, like a preacher,
yelling something 'bout "a rain is gonna fall!"
and he took that and I think he played it side by side
and at different speeds...or through a delay or something.
It's a real early tape piece or like an early delay piece
and it's really cool. I mean it's not really music...or
it is! You know, it's kinda melodic, the phrase starts
taking on melodies...you know what I mean.
J: Sure, sure. The review they did of the City Life
one sounded good.
M: That Six Marimbas is lovely. I've just been
getting interested in him lately, actually.
J: The comparison with Philip Glass is easy to do but
he was always a lot different than Philip Glass, I thought.
M: Well Philip Glass plays on Four Organs. He was
one of the four organists.
J: Is that right?
M: But I like Reich better than Philip Glass. I don't
know why, for sure. I think he's a little more, uh...he's
less baroque or something. I don't know.
J: Smoother somehow....
M: Less showy. I like "Einstein on the Beach"...
J: That's Steve Reich.
M: That's Philip Glass.
J: "Koyaanisqatsi." That was a fun movie.
M: I've seen that three or four times over the years.
I've rented it like three or four different times. [sings]
J: I had...I don't know if I still have it...the first
Philip Glass record.
M: Is that one called Music For Changing Parts?
M: This guy Jason Merritt had that and said it was one
of his best. He loves Philip Glass. He likes him a little
too much for me.
J: I don't think I still have it. I mean, the only thing
I saved when I left Boston was the Funkadelics.
M: That was a good choice.
J: Beaver Harris's record.
M: What was that one called?
J: 360° Music Revolution...
M: What's the name of it though?
J: What is the name of that?
M: I used to totally know...I borrowed that for a while...[ed:
From Ragtime to No Time]
That's the one with [sings] "can there be love...will
there be peace?" That's a good album...
J: [sings] "Dear force above all..."
J: That is good. I love how there's like a drum transtion
between each song. [makes drum sounds] blook-block-batta-duh-wah!
batta-du-datta-do-watta-duh-wah! ching...into the
next tune. Out of that drumbeat.
M: I've got an album, The Blue Humans, with Beaver Harris
and Rudolph Grey...he's a guitarist from the 80s...New
York City...and he got Beaver Harris to be his drummer.
It's kinda odd...he convinced him to do it. I think Beaver
Harris was like...he'd never played with a noise guitarist,
but as soon as he heard it he was like 'yeah, I can do
J: Have you heard Andrew Cyrille play with Bill Laswell
at all? No? I'm curious about that...or the Meters drummer?
M: I've heard some of that. I don't like what Laswell
does when he has his all-star...
Oh, you said that, yeah...
M: When he has his all-star...I mean, most people...
J: Like the Golden Palominos, you don't like?
M: Not really.
J: I didn't really like the Golden Palominos. I mean I
like 'em, but...
M: I think he drains the soul out of it. Like, the stuff
with Zigaboo to me is just a travesty.
J: That's too bad.
M: It sounds like a drum machine or something.
J: He plays...Modeliste plays at some club down in the
Embarcadero at San Francisco like, weekly...he's the house
band at the...Ramada! Or something. I'm not even sure.
M: He lives there now?
J: Yeah. Todd Rundgren lives there. I saw him on Conan
O'Brien the other night. Three piece, rock song...
M: Todd Rundgren?
J:Yeah, it really wasn't that bad. Just because it was
simple and it was...
M: Yeah. Well, I love old Todd Rundgren. Like Something/Anything...
J: Old Todd Rundgren, but this was like...I mean this
was like...he was tryin' to rock and roll...and
it really wasn't too bad.
M: Was it like Fifties style, kinda?
J: No, no...
M: Was it heavy?
J: Kinda like, the verse was kinda, you know, [sings]
duh duh duh-nuh nuh... and then when it came time
to do the chorus it was like he had to...stretch...to
sing as loud and high as he was tryin' to sing...and it
was somethin' about...eh, it was a rock and roll song...but
not like the Fifties, more like...
J: Not Nirvana, more like...um....I don't know, just like,
just like, uh...Tin Machine song maybe?
M: Oh really?
J: Yeah, more like that. Kinda like....ballsy rock?
M: Mm-hmm. [to Caryn] Goin' to bed? Wanna watch Dead
C: Umm...are you?
M: [to Jay] Wanna watch Dead Man? Let's do. I'll
shut this off...